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The Coaching Call Podcast
The Coaching Call Podcast
#21: From Materialism to Mindfulness: A Nomadic Dentist's Tale
What if the key to unlocking the mysteries of our physical and spiritual selves lies in an unexpected place? This week, we chat with Gianni, a nomadic dentist with a passion for psychedelics and self-discovery. Listen in as he shares his unique journey into the world of conscious dentistry and how his experiences have shaped his perspective on life, spirituality, and the connection between the physical and spiritual body.
Together, we explore Gianni's transformative psychedelic experiences, from his eye-opening first encounter with MDMA at an electronic music festival in Sicily, to his ongoing journey with Dentosophia, a concept based on Rudolf Steiner's Anthroposophia studies. We also discuss the potential role psychedelics may play in today's geopolitical climate, their therapeutic and medical uses, and the importance of pursuing passion in life.
Finally, join us as we delve into the impact of materialism on our well-being and Gianni's vision for a community living in harmony with the earth. Discover how working with purpose can lead to abundance and a fulfilling life on our own terms. Don't miss this enlightening conversation with Gianni as we discuss the power of self-discovery, the potential of psychedelics, and the importance of living life on our terms.
Follow me on instagram Dr Harry Gill (@thedentalinnovator) • Instagram photos and videos
If you want to enquire about mentoring email; thedentalinnovatorpodcast@gmail.com
Hello and welcome to the Innovator podcast. today We are joined by Gianni. Thank you so much for joining us today, Gianni. We really appreciate your time. If you could just introduce yourself briefly so that the audience knows who you are and what you do.
Speaker 2:Hello Harry, thank you for hosting me. I'm Gianni and I'm a dentist. like Harry, this is what I do for work. I am a psycho now I don't know if it's the word I'm a person that is what it was, and it's still really interested in psychedelics. I started to do it on a personal level, to myself, to self discover myself, and then this brought me to discover a lot of things about these tools that we can use for ourselves.
Speaker 1:And you're living a bit of a nomadic lifestyle, aren't you? And there's a little through line, because Mohamed Boaziz, who we've had on the podcast before you guys, met organically in Morocco. I think it was So what's led to you living that nomadic lifestyle? Because it is a very unique way of living nowadays.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly For me, nomadic life was something that I was already on a path of discovering myself, and I saw that for discovering myself truly, i have to be in different environment, and this different environment can give me different inputs, and so from these inputs I can discover best myself and discover the world I have around me. And yes, now it's almost four years, because it's four years that I have my van.
Speaker 1:I've seen the van on Instagram. I've seen the van. It looks cool man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's four years. Basically, i bought not. I bought because I didn't pay my van. This was like a present from the universe. The universe bring this van to my life just when I was needing to have a van because I was in Berlin, and in Berlin the rental situation, or the apartment, is crazy. They are super expensive and even if you find an apartment, you never find a long term contract. You start to three months, six months, that's it. So I saw, okay, like maybe if I have a van, like when I found an apartment, i will stay in an apartment When I will not have an apartment, i don't have to go to hotel, airbnb, hostel or whatever.
Speaker 2:And basically after three days that I had this idea, one guy called me because I had a motorbike. This motorbike, i built it by myself, just from scratch, from pieces. But then I built it. It was cool, but then it was too much slow for me Because before I had a really aducati motorbike really fast, and I said this was not for me. So this guy called me and told me look, i like your motorcycle, but I don't have money. I have a van. Do you want to exchange it? And they said look, this is what I'm looking for, just send me some pictures. He sent me the picture of this van and they said looks perfect. So I went back to Sicily, because this van was in Sicily and my motorbike too, and we just exchanged And I went back to Berlin and I started to live in the van.
Speaker 2:Then it started to be cold, it was November and I said, okay, i need an apartment. So I went to an apartment and then Corona happened. And Corona happened when I was changing apartment because my rental contract was ending it was just three months contracts And I said, okay, i need new places. Corona happened I'm Italian and I felt really like it was really hard for me to find an apartment because I was from Italy And people tell me oh sorry, you are from Italy, we don't want to have Italians right now. Yeah, because I was feeling really like such a racist sort of stuff was really strange for me. So I said, okay, this is the sign of the universe that I have to stay in my van. And so then I lived for seven months in my van in Berlin. I found a really nice spot and this was the starting of my van life And this was before. Was like cool before was you have the hashtag van life in Instagram.
Speaker 1:So you started off, gianni, in Italy. Is that where you grew up? And then, when did you become a dentist? How many years ago was that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i graduated in 2011. So it's almost 12 years that I'm working as a dentist And it's a family business. My father is a dentist too And even like my, my grand-grandfather, he was a barber, you know. But he had a barber shop and in New York, he was living in New York And you know, at the time the barber was the barber shop, was even was the dental practice too, because they were extracting to there. So it's really family, family business.
Speaker 1:Yes, How was you've you've? you've sorry to cut you off there, Gianni you've put on Instagram that you're you're conscious dentist. What does that mean to you and how does what you do differ from, let's say, maybe, what you got taught at university? Is there any differences or any things that you've changed?
Speaker 2:You mean in my practice as a dentist.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for me, like when I start to discover myself, like you know we can say spiritual way, i understood that we are not just this physical body, that this physical body, what we can actually see, is a really tiny fraction of what we are. And when, then, we don't have only this physical body, we have the, we have an astral body and a terric body, we have our Iger cell you can give a lot of names to what we have that is not material. And so I start to think that, okay, like, but if we have other bodies, other parts of ourself that are not just the physical one but they are strictly connected to our, to our body, to out, to this body, how it's possible that that you know, illness or whatever, is not connected to to what we don't see? I start to find, to look for the connection between our physical body and our spiritual body, our a theoretical body. And was not so easy because there is no, no clinical research, there are not so many, so many things that you can, you can find on this topic. But then I discovered the dentosophic practice. I don't know if you know about dentosophia. Is the not? dentosophia, basically, is based on the Rudolf Steiner study on anthroposophia, rudolf Steiner said tell this that we are not our just our physical body that we have. We are more than this. We have other parts of ourself that are not visible And this invisible part are strictly connected with our physical part. And even in the way we can, we get illness and we can be healed, we can, we can find a relationship. And then to Sophia, basically, what then? what? this concept, that what the Steiner just introduced was not developed by him?
Speaker 2:then a French dentist, michel Montaud, he started to put his, his effort on the start to make study, research, and he really was a. He's a pioneer, a pioneer of dentosophia, so, like. So one colleague, one one another dentist is one of my best friend. He told me all, like, i heard about this dentosophia. You know there is, it looks interesting, and I know that you are in in this part of like, discovering more your, your spiritual side.
Speaker 2:And I started to look for him. I bought a couple of books, i started to read and look online specific on this topic, and I found like, wow, like this is what I was, i was looking for. And so I discovered a lot of stuff that that really helped me to change my way to see the mouth, to see this, the teeth, to see the, the way we develop, the way we swallow the saliva, the way we we grind our teeth, if we are nervous, all this stuff, really, for me, now make they make sense, because before there was no explanation for me. But okay, you're, you're, you're not swallowing, good, and this is the way you can change it. You put this, this bite, you put this and this change, but they don't explain, like why we have this, this function.
Speaker 1:That's it. That's interesting, that's very interesting. I'm going to have to look into that, gianni, you're gonna DM me the the details, maybe a website or something that can check out about it. It sounds really cool. Though, one thing that I wanted to ask and ask everyone is you've talked about being a dentist. You've talked about bringing this kind of newer relationship between the spiritual body and the physical body into your practice. So let's, let's go a bit kind of higher, higher level. What do you see as your purpose, what do you see as your mission on this, on this light, in this life on this earth? What, what's the North Star for Gianni?
Speaker 2:For me, my North Star is I have one North Star is just personal, it just for what I want to my for me. and then is what, what I wanted? Maybe the reflection of what I will look for me will be helpful for the others, and for me it's just for me, it's just about discovering myself more and more and more, and the way I do it is just looking to myself with a perspective of something bigger than just my physical body. And for me, like my purpose, my aim for the dental sofic work right now is this is to make more, as much people as possible aware of this condition, of the way that we have not our physical body, that we can. we can heal in a different way and not just with wires, not just with drills, not just with pills, chemicals, stuff. This is what I. even it's something that I really I start to be really skeptical about the Western medicine And, yeah, this is so. this is my aim. I want to look for a more natural way to heal people. This is my purpose.
Speaker 1:That's a great answer And I have to say, like a lot of people who are listening might be dentists and they might be thinking, oh, but that's not the way that you do it. But one thing that I would challenge you all with is that how long have we actually been doing Western dentistry, in terms of in relation to how long humans have actually been on this planet? And the timeframe is very short, so it would be arrogant of us to think that we've got all the answers that we understand. This is exactly how it should be done, because we really don't have that much time. The time that we have of doing this type of work is, you know, 100 years. It's not much, is it 100 years, gianni, something like that. So you know, as you mentioned, the barbers were doing dentistry. You know in your family, you know and I've seen that you know those, those relics in museums and stuff in the British Dental Association of Barber chairs that that used to do it.
Speaker 1:So, it's crazy, but it's a young, it's a young profession, it's not that old, you know. So it's it's one of those things where we've got to got to really have an open mind to these things, and I do think that's really important. One thing that you mentioned, gianni, that I wanted to touch on, maybe before we start the podcast, was psychedelics. You know I was in a busy setup, this Berlin psychedelic meetup, which got kind of integrated with the Berlin Psychedelic Society and where people could discuss their experiences. When did you first interact with psychedelics yourself And and what did you find and how valuable was that to you And what's your journey been like since then with psychedelics?
Speaker 2:It's a really interesting question. And, yes, like for me, like I never been, like I never been like a people, a person that I was, that I was looking for. you know drugs, because all the people think of psychedelics as a drug. So I always been like really quiet person. I just like drinking a bit, then smoking some joint, but not not in a really like toxic way, but then, for me, psychedelic. I had my first really psychedelic experience when I was already 30, yeah, 33 years old. Now I'm almost 38. So I was, i was already like, i was a grown up man, was not like you know, i was not the typical experience of the teenager guy that go to discotheque and take stuff like this festival. And for me was the first experience was was not even what I was, what I was looking for. for me was like we have, we.
Speaker 2:I was in Palermo and I'm from Sicily and I'm from the south of Sicily, like a small village. But then that period I was moved. I moved to Palermo it is the capital of city of Sicily And there was this electronic music festival that was not not the common one, was made with university, with with the art Academy, so was something that was really made in a in a nice way, not just a party, and I'm basically there was this, this session, where we were in this theater with a giant movie screen and they are big sound system, and I took some MDMA, because I have this MDMA, like with his friends, and I was like, you know, let's take something, it will be fun, okay, let's do it. You know, and I was in this theater And we I would, took this MDMA. and then, you know, all this video, audio spectre show started And I start to feel really my body was start to change.
Speaker 2:the all the feelings, all the vibration, all the sound was really going inside of me. And at a certain moment this was the, the peak of the experience I start to look at my body and my body start to disappear Basically. yes, i saw my hand. they just depixel eyes, you know, like it was a pixel of the computer. just my body was not there anymore And I was not anymore in the theater, i was not even on on earth. I don't know where I was in that moment And basically everything disappeared.
Speaker 2:There was like this sort of gray space around me And this in this gray space, then, sort of like, the points of light start to blink. You know, they start to blink and I was like what is this? And I was when I was looking precisely in one of these dots, i was going inside events of my life. I was seeing that this OK, this is when I made this, this is when this, this person, hurt me, this is when my father made this, this is when I went to this place. I was, i was really looking all my life in this dots of light And then suddenly a spark of light, like a flash, connected all these dots like this, and I saw and basically, in this connection, there was all my life there Since I born till that moment was all there and was all connected, was not like randomly. everything I made in my life till that moment Was because I had to experience this and that sensation in that moment, in that context, to realize that, like, everything happened for a reason, that there are no coincidence, there is no random stuff, that everything is made for a reason and is and the and for me, that the message was everything is made for a reason, and this reason is you, is to discover that you are not just Johnny.
Speaker 2:you know Johnny is just a name, is not who you really are. So I had this experience, i can. I understood that there is something more outside that, not just my physical body. And then I, basically, after this experience, i went back to my physical body. I went back to the theater, to the theater, to my friend, but I was not anymore the person I was before the. this experience I was changed. I was when I had was really an incredible experience. So when the music stopped, we, we just let the light went on and I went. I just step up from the, from the chair, i went outside and the world was not the world that was experienced before was. everything was really changed.
Speaker 2:And from that experience I start to be curious. Then I say, oh, like, what happened to me? because this, this kind of sensation that I had was not, was less That I was. I was feeling this energy inside my body. I was, i was more aware of the energy of the people, of my surrounding, of the nature. I was, look, i was able to look for a tree, look, look at three for 10 minutes. You know, like, like, oh, this tree is nice. you know, look the leaves. I was not the, the person I was before. you know. before I was really more materialistic, more more like I don't know, was just different. So from from that, from this experience, i start to be more interesting.
Speaker 2:I interested on psychedelics. I start to try different tools, different psychedelics. LSD was my second tool, then I started. then I then I went to an ayahuasca ceremony and which was an incredible experience. Then mushroom, then I started to try everything I was was able to try because I was really curious about this. But, yeah, this is what I like from my experience that I made it in a in a conscious way. I made it in a way that, okay, i did. I understood that these tools are great for discovering something more about myself, about the reality. So I want to use this tool for because I'm curious, because I want to know more. This is the pattern of my approach with psychedelics. I never took psychedelics for having fun or for, you know, going to party or just for escaping from from, from my reality. that that that I didn't like, that this is what most of the people, that they are not conscious about this they are doing. So this is my, my approach to psychedelics as tools for opening some doors.
Speaker 1:I love that man. I love that because it sounds very similar. You know, i'm I just based it when I was 31 32 psychedelics, so, yeah, so definitely some similarities. That MDMA experience sounds amazing And I've got a couple of friends who've reported similar things with with music events as well. Cool man, and I really do like that.
Speaker 1:I think one thing that I always say is I don't see it as a drug necessarily, i see it as a the way. The way I put it is communion with God. You know how, you know that in the Catholic church, to have the bread that represents the body of Christ, like literally, i see it as like you're having a communion. You know, direct line relationship with the source to create the energy, the universe, whatever you want to call it, and it's so invaluable. But one thing you have to be aware of is if you go in there authentically, there's no way you're not going to change like yeah, no, it's going to happen.
Speaker 1:I heard this MMA fighter is quite famous, called Israel Adesanya. He's a UFC champion And he said I'm going to wait to do ayahuasca until I've retired because I've got this feeling that I won't be able to fight other people once I've taken, yeah, the medicine and I was like, well, that's very insightful Man, that's very insightful. So you know which? which experience has stand out to you, gianni, as as things that really helped you see the world differently. Obviously, that first one sounded magnificent in that regard, but with any that really stood out for you that helped deepen your relationship with yourself and understanding of yourself.
Speaker 2:But I think that, because I had a lot is difficult to, But, yes, like if I, if I, if I can mention one that really changed my perspective, the perspective on this reality and the perspective of who I am, you know, like who is this Gianni, that? who is this, this body that people call Gianni? like this was basically, was after my first ayahuasca ceremony. It was a mess, Was, was not, was not like, was not good in a way that you do want to look at, is most not the perfect experience to take to talk ayahuasca, But for me was, was totally positive. But basically, after this ceremony, we were in north of Italy And this amazing villa with a lot of forests, a lot of huge garden And basically after the ceremony, I stayed other almost one week in this villa because I met the owner of the villa and he told me we really connected in a nice way And he told me no, you can stay here as much as you want. So I basically I deleted my appointment at the studio. I was supposed to take my, my plane to go back to Sicily. I call my assistants and say, like I have to stay here more. Just delete my appointment for the rest of the week I stay here. So basically with the, with one of this guy that we stayed in this villa.
Speaker 2:This guy was he was doing by himself, Changa. He was doing, you know, Changa. For the people who doesn't know, it's a mix between DMT and other herbs can be other herbs, that was even. You can put even some ashish inside some stuff that basically are able to prolong the effect of DMT, because DMT when it looks pure it's really powerful, but it's really. I have a really short effects, like last five or five or six minutes, eight minutes. Changa lasts a bit more. It can be up to 20 minutes, half an hour.
Speaker 1:So basically Johnny, just for people who don't know, usually in hail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you smoke, yeah, you smoke. Okay, you use a pipe. We used a water pipe for smoking this Changa. We were in this amazing garden, so this guy passed me the pipe and that was, for me, was my first time I was, was, i was trying Changa. So basically, i smoke the first pop, the second pop and the second pop I was.
Speaker 2:I've just felt like the blanket that we have to cover the reality that that that like yeah, this blanket just was, throw it up, was just open it, and it was like like look, this is, this is the real reality. And I start to see all the trees, all the leaves, all the grass, what they were moving and they were like connected by each other And, as I was feeling, i was seeing the energy of the tree, that they were going through the earth. I was was amazing. So I start to, i just stand up and I start to look around me and I saw that there was all this like ray of light that from my body, from all the pores of my skin, they were going to other, to other beings. They were going to to some trees, to some plants, to some bushes. And I start to walk around this garden and I looked to the sun, there was. The sun was like 5 pm in the morning, in the evening was like spring time. So it was this amazing sun And I looked at the sun and the sun, the light of the sun was not burning my eyes, i was able to look into the sun, the sun, with no problem. And then so I just to start to fix my my, my attention to the sun. And from the sun, the sun start to pulse, like like the pulse, like a pulsation of light, and then a spiral of light came out from the sun and that's start to spiral around me and go wider and wider and wider. And then suddenly, this spiral of light start to shape in different beings. Basically, there was this this spiral of light was transformed in a multitude, i don't know, 20, 50, hundreds beings made of light.
Speaker 2:And these beings they were like, always changing the shape. They were like male, female, old, young. They were. They were all there.
Speaker 2:I think the only the only name that I can give to these beings. They were like angels, like cause, they were. They have light body. They were changing. No sex, no age. For me they were angel and they were looking at me and they look at me and they, they start to to ask me question. And the first thing that I understood that these beings, they know everything already about me. They know everything and they love me as I am, with all my my, my defect, with all my trauma, with all my sub. They love me And they start me to ask question.
Speaker 2:And the main question was always who are you? And they say, like, oh, who I am? I say I'm, i'm Johnny. And they tell me, like no, johnny is just a name. Like, who are you? And I say, like I'm, i'm a dentist. Like they tell me like no, no, it's not dentist, it's just your job. Like like, who are you? Okay, it's, oh, i'm, i'm, i'm a human being. You know I'm a human being.
Speaker 2:They told me, yes, you are, you are a human being, but you are not just a human being. Like, like, who are you? again? And I say like, oh, so, yes, maybe you know I have a soul and I am, so I am a soul too that is living this in this body. I say like yes, this is, it's like quite correct. So, like you, you know I'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm.
Speaker 2:Where was your soul before your body was born, in this on the earth. And I say, like I don't know, like I think, yeah, i think maybe this soul was, was, was alive, was, was, was here, even before my body was, was present in this reality. And they tell me, yes, and, and where? you? and what happened to this soul? when you will die, when, when this body will be not here anymore? And they say, like I don't know where will be, but yeah, I think that, even if my body will die, i think that this soul will, will continue, will last for the rest of eternity. So I say, ah, yes, that's true. So like who are you again?
Speaker 2:And I say, i start to you know, to make my, my brain connection. Okay, so like, i'm not just this body, i am a soul, and this soul is eternal, it, it, it was here before Johnny was here and this soul will be here after Johnny will be not anymore here. So I am immortal. And I said, okay, who is immortal, who is eternal? I say, like God, so that? and they tell me, yes, so like who are you? And I say like oh, fuck. And I say, oh, my God. And they start to smile at me And there is like yes, like you are God, remember it, you are God, you are not just Johnny, you are not just the body, you are God.
Speaker 2:And then then, then this happened I start to cry You know, it was just tears from my, really like liters of of of tears from my, from my face. I start to cry And to realize this and it's like, oh fuck, like I am God, this is real, i am God, and I don't say Johnny is God, like like, i am part of this. And it's like Johnny is just a tiny fraction of what is this God, of this? this universe is energy, You can call it as you want to say, like yes, like okay, realize I am God. And they told me as yeah, so you are God. And what? what God is doing, what is the mean of God? And let's say like, like, what God's do is create. God created everything. And they say it on me Yes, like you are God and you can, you can create whatever you want. Well, what you want to do, you can create it, because this is, this is why you are here.
Speaker 2:And when I realized this, i was like, really again crying, because I'm really a motive person too, so I start to cry for this happiness, for this realization, and they start to smile at me, send me like the most powerful love or light, whatever, like they give me all this love And then they say to me that just goodbye. Like now, you know, we told you what we have to tell goodbye. So they start to spiral again around me And they transformed again into the spiral of light And they came back again into the sun. So I start to continue to look at the sun and the sun starts again to buds, but buds in a really powerful way, and then at a certain moment the sun basically exploded. The sun exploded And I was surrounded by this huge, like everything was white, just pure white light around me.
Speaker 2:You know what? I think everyone saw matrix, you know the white room of matrix, but everything was white. I had this light and it was like an explosion in my face And I had this like what the fuck is this? When I saw this white room, and then suddenly the reality, the normal reality, just came back And I was again in that garden with this like tree, with all the surrounding, with the birds and everything. But I was like super shocked. I was like what happened? this, but for me, like this white light, this being in the white room, was the proof of this. Okay, this universe, this reality that I am experiencing, is just a white room, and in this white room, i can create whatever I want, like this is why I am here to create my reality, to create what I love, what I want for me, what I want for the others, like this is the meaning of Johnny being here. So, yeah, i think this was a really profound experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, it sounds it So that it's really interesting because this is something that has been kind of coming up with me a lot recently. It's interesting that you say that about creation, almost manifesting the reality you wish to exist in, creating the circumstances that you want to have. And it's a weird one man like when you start getting into that, because it's not the way that we've been taught at school, that things. Weird Completely, but you do, you do start to touch on, and I think I'm just scratching the surface of this. I don't think I'm fully there or anything yet, but you start to scratch as if it's that actually your inner world really does reflect the outer world Much more in a one to one fashion than you actually think. So you know, what kind of? how have you taken that further? How have you taken that forward, that kind of idea about creating your reality? How's that gone? How's that going in terms of? you know, it sounds cool when the van just disappeared from your friend and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, i think that. I think for me, i don't have an answer to all this, but what I just experienced in these last years, this experience with Changa, was 2018, i think, yeah, it was just before I went to Berlin, and I think, berlin, i went to Berlin because of this, even because of this experience. It was basically this experience with MDMA. Then, after the experience of MDMA, the Ayahuasca ceremony came to me too. This was not something that I was looking at. I was like, if you want, i can just briefly explain how I get to the Ayahuasca ceremony. Like I didn't know nothing about what was Ayahuasca, what was DMT, all this stuff. I was just with a friend of mine texting on WhatsApp. He's a dentist too. He's the guy who introduced me to Dentosophic And we were texting and this guy told me like wait a moment, i'm receiving a call. We were just talking about something else, totally. And he told me oh look, i have one guy's call me. I will text you back in five minutes. After five minutes, he texted me and told me oh yeah, this guy, like he invited me to this Ayahuasca ceremony. It was not Ayahuasca, it was Urema, that is like the Brazilian version of Ayahuasca. And when I wrote this message, something happened to me. I didn't know nothing about what was Urema and stuff. I went to a sort of autopilot. I went outside, out from WhatsApp, i went to Sky Scanner and I booked a flight to Perugia to go to this Ayahuasca session, without knowing nothing. Then, when I made the ticket, i just came back to my consciousness, i don't know. I said, look, i don't know what happened, but I made the ticket to this ceremony, so tell to your friends that I will join the ceremony too. And so this is like and really I don't have any explanation about how this happened Just happened. I was just supposed to be there in that moment and make this experience with Ayahuasca And it was amazing.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, about creating our reality, it's something that I think goes back and no, but it goes in waves, i think a period of my life where really I am in control of the universe. Like you know, i'm really manifesting quickly. You know I want this and this. Like I need the van. The van just came. I want to meet this person, and this even without talking, without chatting. I just meet this person like in the street, with no text, nothing. So I have this period of like, where I'm in the synchronicity or I'm manifesting. You know you can give a lot of name to this feeling, to what happened And period that I'm not in this. You know, i'm like maybe I come back to more my physical, human reality And I had problems, i had difficulty, like everyone else.
Speaker 2:So I think one important message for me, for people that want to experience with psychedelics, is that they are not the shortcut for nothing. They are not shortcut for okay, like I want to be in the stage, i will take ayahuasca every month, or I will do mushroom session every week or whatever. For me, they are just tools. They are just masters. They just teach you the way that you can be. They can teach you like I. Like, if you want to discover more yourself. Like there is this tool If you want to see how is the reality, like the real reality, take this Like you have. But they are not something that you have to take it, like you know, as a habit.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like what's?
Speaker 2:your experience.
Speaker 1:Johnny, do you feel like people are opening up to psychedelics more and more as times passing? Or, like what's your experience been? Do you feel like people are opening up more to it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think there is a sort of they call it the second psychedelics wave now, like now the psychedelic no, we have the first during the 70s, the 60s, you know, the first with the flower power, all this stuff. We had the first psychedelic wave that ended in a really bad way, i think with all the regulation. All this stuff that was for me, was bad because what they showed to us was just the wood stock and people getting high And nobody was talking about the use of these tools in a medical way. So we had this 30 years of really like we were taboo and this black period for psychedelics. And now something is moving on, something is happening. A lot of university, a lot of research association. They are putting again on the table psychedelic for a medical use, for a therapeutic use, and so I'm happy that this is happening again.
Speaker 2:And this is from the good side. From the bad side especially, i was living in Berlin. I saw that a lot of people they are taking psychedelics in a not so correct way, that there is an abuse on the other side. So I think that everything happened for a reason. Although you need some, if you want to have something good from one side, you have to allow to the other side that something bad can happen. But I prefer to have a society that is more used to psychedelics and not a society that is more used to other substances like cocaine, for example, or heroin or this kind of tool, the kind of things that are not so good.
Speaker 1:They are really destroying the life of the people, destroying literally the brain of a lot of people, because in the 60s there was the Vietnam War and all these other things going on. Quite a tumultuous time period.
Speaker 2:Sorry, can you hear me now The volume of your microphone. Maybe Now can you hear me. Yeah, yeah, now it's perfect. I was thinking about my phone, but it's new.
Speaker 1:So basically there was quite a tumultuous time in the 60s when We had all this, you know, war and all of these things going on, and then obviously psychedelics were a big Part of what happened at that time. And then I feel like we're kind of heading into another Kind of tumultuous geopolitical time and it's kind of funny that psychedelics are coming back With quite a big presence right now. It's probably probably because they're needed. You know, what do you think, gianni, with the gods to? you know, a lot of people's society Are suffering with anxiety or suffering with depression. Obviously neither of us a psychologist, but What do you think is the root cause of that? given you're someone who lives a nomadic lifestyle, which is a completely different lifestyle to the normal Western kind of routine, what's kind of your take on depression and anxiety in our society at the moment?
Speaker 2:for me is like I was depressed, so I can, so I can tell you this, like for me, like I had. I have experience in this field too. So for me, this, like For me, that depends the reason of why you are depressed, like, i think, more people, they are depressed because they are, they are living a life that they don't want to live, maybe because they they have, like a job that they don't like, they have a they're living toxic relationship. They are No, they have something that is not going as they want. But at the same time, a lot of this person, they don't have an escape. They don't. They don't, at least they don't. They, they don't find yeah, they didn't have find yet an escape or a solution to this, to this problem.
Speaker 2:For me, for example, the The escape I'm sorry, i'm Italian, so with English sometimes I get lost. But yeah, for me, like the way I went out from my depression. The depression was after I had a Motorbike accident that really hurt me and I was. I had to stay stop for three months almost, and Yeah, but the way I went out from depression for me was like leaving everything behind and start to travel. I just took, i was. I say okay, like I want to go to the farthest place on earth that that I can do, like far from my life, far from my friend, from my Family, from from everything I'm experiencing. I'm experiencing now because, like in this place, in this context, in this social Surrounding that I have, i'm not happy. So so I took a flight for Tokyo. One way I went to Japan. I Went to Japan Like this, and I was not. And for people, like a lot of people tell me, i guess, because you are a dentist, you had a lot of money in the bank so you can just go like like no, i had like I think, less than to less than 2000 euro in my pocket and I made like one way ticket, like I don't know when, when I will will go back to Europe and if I will go back to Sicily, to Europe. So like when I think, when I took the first step, like for me it's like okay, ticket, fly, go away. So like when you do the first step to, to and wax you a step, okay, like I don't like my life, i will do something for changing, for change my life. I think this is the, the moment when, when the universe, when God, when whatever the energy like may start to work for you. Because if you don't react, if you just are complaining, complaining, complaining every day of your life that you don't like this, you're like, you will not do nothing special, you will do. Nothing will change like And for me, like start to travel in going to Japan, then went to China, then Thailand, korea, all this stuff that we don't having any problem, any plan.
Speaker 2:I was just, you know, following What the universe was telling me and For me was a great experience. I'm, you know, i was there and I met this person, this person bring me to Japan, they bring me to scale the, the Fuji volcano. I did, and I didn't have any Equipment, i didn't have, like, hiking boots, nothing, you know, i was, i was just there and Just for the reason, i say to this guy Yes, i will come to you, no matter what, i will find a way to to come with you, with you. I found, i found, like, a pair of boots in a restroom. I found that one guy give me a jacket. So like, just just like this, something happened because I, i make the first step.
Speaker 2:So for a lot, for a lot of people that died, that they are trapped in this, like I'll. You call the the hamster wheel. For me It's like if you want to do something, you, you have to just step up from the hamster wheel, like don't, don't have fear, like don't don't have, like you don't leave a hole, what will, what will happen? and then I will get on the streets, like with nothing, like no, like, if you, if you, if you're really in this situation and you are not able to To stay in this hamster wheel, just step up, stepped out, don't, don't, don't worry, if you don't have money, if you don't have a place, if you know, if you, if you are scared, if you do it, something will happen. And it is like my experience. But then, because I, because I start to Do this kind of life and I met other people that they had the same exact experience like me. They were like me, just in different perspective, because they were not dentists, maybe they were, you know, engineer, they were. They were like whatever waiter, they were never, whatever, they just. We hope we all had the same experience, like when I, when I took the first step, when I had the courage To go out from the situation.
Speaker 2:Then something happened and for me Psychedelic was just, they were just Confirmation tools. Like I was already in this part of transformation. I was just in this part of like this, rediscovering myself. And then the psychedelics they give me, like the, the, the way to, to boost, maybe to go high. Yeah, i think I'm going to go high. Yeah, but, for example, now I don't take psychedelics anymore, like I'm not, i took it for, for, for, like, i think one or one year, one year and a half, i had this Experiences with psychedelics and but now I feel, okay, i good, i don't need anymore to take Psychedelic. I'm always high and I know I don't need to take psychedelics. Psychedelics to be high, because Because when you, when you step up from your comfort zone, when you, when you put all your effort in one, put all your effort in what you really want to do and not what in what other people Tell you that this is the correct way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to. You know work, make money by all. Do you know all this like, like materialistic stuff. When you step out from this, then You have no reason to be depressed, you have no reason to To be sad, because everything is already perfect. You don't need nothing. Really, okay, i'm not the one.
Speaker 2:That's like a lot like if you buy a hundred thousand euro car, you're a bad person. Or if you have, if you have a villa, you have a. No, no, no for me, it's like. Even for me, my aim is this. My aim is even like one day I would love to have like a nice villa with the garden or stuff. Even for me, it's like even a community way, so with other people living together in a sort of like Paradise on earth. This is my my stuff, but and I love motorbike, even if I accident, i want to have back my motorbike, my Ducati, and travel with. So I want this, but this is not.
Speaker 2:This is not the reason why I'm working. This is not like I'm not working for having money to buy this stuff. I'm working because I like to work, i like to help people, i like to, to help people to heal, to find different way to, to be happy and to and to enjoy their life, and I think and I hope that this will bring me Abundancy. I say money or whatever my. So this is like is not the is not The reason why I doing. I'm doing my work, but this is the reason. This is what happened when I do my job in a good way. Right now I'm leaving my life. We have our van, our We call it is our villa, is my side.
Speaker 2:Right now I am, i think, 100 meter from the beach here, like so, like, like if you find another villa that is 100 meter from the beach and then you can move it to the mountain if I want. If It's too hot, i just take it and go to the mountain where it's pressure, like for me right now It's okay and this is what I need right now. Maybe in a couple of months here. So now maybe I will need to be more stable and I will. I want something different.
Speaker 1:We get in this trap right of living in this very materialistic world as because we've been Taught this, we've been taught to do it like this. Our parents we model after them, and the people that we see around us, we model after them. But there is a better way, you know. You don't have to be chasing things in the world To be happy, and we've kind of all been sold alive that materialism is the answer, right, and this excess of more and more and more and more, and I think that it's very good to hear a message that's It's different to that you know.
Speaker 1:So, i think, for everyone listening, your experience and how you're living your life and Your journey with psychedelics, and obviously now that you've kind of evolved past that, i think it's very insightful and very helpful to a lot of people. So I could talk to you for ages, johnny, thank you so much for your time, and is there anything else you wanted to end on, johnny? Any last points you want to make to the listeners, anything that you want them to take away with them, want to say something?
Speaker 2:it was from Terence McKenna. This is one of my.
Speaker 2:There's like take it easy but take it But it is like the way I approach with life take it easy, but take it like do something. For me It's like don't, don't stay, don't, don't, don't let your fears, your trauma, your stuff Stop you. Like Act, create as with a god create. You have to. You are here for create. So, like, in a way or another, you have to create your own life. Don't, don't live the life that someone else society, parents, friends Told you that is the correct way to live like. I think that everyone have a passion, can be a sport, can be your job. As I see that you love your job, i can see it like you and and you love to share what is your Yeah, even all the tips and stuff to have a practice. I can see that you're happy because you are, you are, you are doing what you love to do, and So this is the aim that I have to for all the people do what you love to do, no matter what, no matter how. Like, like don't, don't. Listen the other boy.
Speaker 1:You don't want to be waking up when you're 65, 70 and think you know what? I wish I'd done it different. You know that's, your English is fantastic, mate. You know you really put us all the shame in England, because we don't have second languages, that we speak this Well. But but, well done, man, and and I have to say you, you articulated yourself beautifully. So again, thank you so much for your time.
