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The Coaching Call Podcast
The Coaching Call Podcast
# 20: Journey to Self-Discovery: Exploring Personal Growth through Psychedelics with Ollie Martin
Are you ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery and personal growth through the world of psychedelics? Join us as we connect with Ollie Martin, a true psychedelic pioneer who shares his own eye-opening experiences and insights into the potential benefits of these powerful substances. From ego dissolution to the hero's journey, we discuss the importance of surrendering to the psychedelic experience, the power of gratitude, and embracing the present moment.
We also delve into the differences between various substances such as psilocybin and DMT, offering guidance on the best entry points for those new to these transformative tools. Alongside this, we stress the importance of responsible use, proper integration, and the delicate balance between seeking new experiences and incorporating them into our daily lives. With Ollie's wisdom, you'll learn the significance of connection and sharing our journeys with others.
Finally, as we reflect on our own personal growth, we acknowledge the importance of giving back to the psychedelic community and the power of self-discovery. Listen as we share our passion for spreading love, connection, and understanding through these enlightening substances. Don't miss this fascinating conversation that could be the catalyst for your own journey of growth and self-exploration.
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If you want to enquire about mentoring email; thedentalinnovatorpodcast@gmail.com
Hello everyone and welcome to the I was nearly going to say the dental innovator podcast, but I've just changed the name to the innovator podcast. Welcome. And today we have Ollie Martin with us, who is an expert on psychedelics, is someone that I have known well recently, over the last year or two, and somebody I first came across in the five MEO movie. If any of you haven't seen it, it's a really good little introduction into the world of psychedelics And it was quite a human story with three guys. So, ollie, i thought you were great in that And your contributions were some of the highlights for me when I was watching. So thank you for joining us. How are you today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, after the hassle we had with the camera set. You know it's just tech stuff, right, so that really drawn us already into. Well, how can we serve people? because all you know, it's all that.
Speaker 1:So the first, the first question I always ask, ollie, is what is your mission in life? What is your purpose in life? Like what do you see as your reason for being here in this world in this time? And that's quite a difficult question for people to answer often, but I'm going to put it to you anyway.
Speaker 2:Obviously, there's Ollie taking place here, yeah, and there's consciousness behind that. And Ollie's that little guy you know who constantly is going like, look at this world, how can we go on? So? yeah, obviously he just has the mission to think life is shitty or something. So my mission, on the other hand, is, you know, be the change by being the change. That's or bringing the change by being the change. And it's just where we all kept in this, in this idea of being me. And the more you can share with people what truly matters, like love, yeah, like connection, like knowing what, what truly, what truly life is, yeah the more you you spread that by connecting with everyone, yeah, you do in a service to all of us, because it's all connected And you have the choice to how you interact with people. The thing is, you see, i'm learning still a lot on how to cope with myself, how to love myself the way I am, which is basically. I guess that's the big one in life. But I can say that I'm not putting any misery or bad shit on any other person anymore, and that is very important, because we all teach into the system of bullying ourselves through life, and I think that's if you make a change there and just stop giving the blame to anyone else, for just, you know, for your shit, that's a big one, and if you stop that, there's already big change coming. So, since I'm you know I'm not good with sitting in a nine of five job, you know I'm my thing is like you know, live, you know, experience, experiencing life, and that has always been like experiencing substances, and I mean substance abuse as self medication, kind of. So then I ended it growing mushrooms 30 years ago already. I'm 48 now And, yeah, you know, and if you grow mushrooms and if you do them, you just have this like you need to share them, you need to spread that. You can't keep it to yourself. And then you well, it all started there. So, like 13, 14 years ago, i started to share this publicly, in the sense that I've been starting to do sessions And from that it all evolved into. You know, you learn how to do this, you learn how to sit for people for, be with people, and what kind of responsibility, responsibility comes with that, and yeah, so, my, you know, it's all about sharing love and core And I really love to share the wisdom I gathered from doing, from doing psychedelics, specifically mushrooms, and also five million teams, something I'm, i'm, yeah, meanwhile, have a have a good practice of how to do it from all the sessions I've done. And yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:It's lovely that you mentioned the movie, because I was just riding with Boris. You know, every now and every few months or something, we get in, we get in exchange. I said I've been having a podcast with this spiritual dentist podcast and with a friend, with Harry, And I say I will, i will mention the movie, i will mention the movie, but obviously you just did it, you know. So it's really a very lovely movie. It's, and it is a movie. It's kind of like an adventure. It's not that typical. You know, joe Rogan, uh, advertises the five, the DMT or five medium T kind of stuff, and it's just the story, the story about humans and uh, and that's beautiful. And the center is this yeah, this adventure with the five that you also undertook, yeah, One thing I want to touch on.
Speaker 1:All is we're going right into it, but there'll be some people listening to this who might not even really be aware what psychedelics are. They might be thinking, yeah, war on drugs, 1960s, hippie movement, and then I kind of just don't know what it is, right. So, uh, people putting flowers into guns on, like you know, vietnam war protests in America? Right? So what would you summarize psychedelics actually as like, what are they and what do they do?
Speaker 2:I'm still having this image in my head of guns with flowers and love. Well, well, the thing is and I was mentioning the love thing before myself, you know so well, well, let's, let's. The serious approach would be like that's what been, what is also been, um, like pushed into into media right now is like this is the tool to work on yourself. Yeah, this is the tool to purge old traumatic events, to, uh, you know, it's psychotherapy. Yeah, and that might be right. Yeah, partially that's the case. I personally would say, um, and it's very dose dependent. Yeah, um, it can be a support, um like to to balance out the chemistry that you have in your brain when you go the micro dosing road. Yeah, so you take a dose every day which is so small that it's not directly active, but overall, uh, over time, you know you, you accumulate um, a level in your brain, um, but then there's this big field of um. How you would call that? Yeah, Well, i call it having a non duality experience, like an experience where you go beyond the self, beyond the person you think you are, but you know, um well that that would be, let's, let's say, high dose sessions where you, where you can encounter what would be called a death experience Yeah, where it's. It's not an experience, actually, it's real, yeah, and and um. So so the thing is that, uh, either you have this high dose uh experience, which is how I work, where you can go beyond this, this self, which is uh, yeah, limiting you uh in daily life, or and that's the thing where I, where we initially started uh, you, you have this um possibility of doing um therapeutical work with it, which is what is very much pushed in the media right now, uh, where I see you can do it.
Speaker 2:But it's very important that there is additional support of talk, therapy, of, you know, of going through the stuff that will surface through this um in a in a proper way. And typically people work in retreat, um, right right here. Yeah, so, um, and if you work in retreat, you have people coming to that retreat and there's a little bit of talk going on before or after. This is how we have done it. You know we do it weekends, uh, over three days, yeah, where people were coming on the Friday and getting together. Then they have the session and then there's exchange.
Speaker 2:But this is not what, what I mean with a, with a proper um, uh, support for integration and for, you know, uh, really going through the stuff that that washes up and um, yeah, so, so, my idea of really good and proper therapeutic work with with mushrooms, um, and I always um for the mushrooms because they are very, very, very special in that regard, that they are very gentle though very potent, and that there is a, well, you know, um, yeah, there's, there's something with them that makes them very special because you, you know, you just plug them in the wild and can eat them.
Speaker 2:There's no process being made and but, you know, it's just um, there's a lot of stuff going on and obviously there's money involved in all of this and, and I guess it's more, that they do want to process, um, produce the psilocybin and psilocentin in pill form and then use it that way.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, i'm, i'm, you know I'm not coming from this kind of um, from from this kind of point, being a mushroom grower and that. So, yeah, but, um, for me it would be possible to do this therapeutic approach because, uh, i personally think that this person would need to be in a, in a very tight container of like 46 weeks, support and um, well, you know, and uh, for the future, i would dream from having a center kind of kind of style where, um, yeah, where you can then approach with, and also the dosages would be a little bit lower, between the 10 to 15 milligram range, um, and repeated use of that within this therapeutic container. That would be really something where many people can have benefit from, even if they have strong and intense traumatic uh it it wins um and difficulties in life And it was a bit of, you know, no, no, that's fine.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned something before about, um, experiencing like a death experience, and some people who hear that might be uh, because you said it's, it's not just you feel like you're dying, it's like it's almost like a real thing. So, um, how do you, how do you say when someone sees a calling for something like that, they don't really have to force it to the? do you feel like this naturally come to the psychedelic? It doesn't feel like they're having to force it or do some sort of adrenaline thing with it, like, yeah, i'm going to, you know, go and try this to, to have an experience. It seems like you know you get a calling to do it And then it almost as naturally starts to happen and flow in that direction. Would you agree with that, ollie?
Speaker 2:Uh well, the question is always, you know, is there's, is, is this a calling? and where? is this a calling? from within, or is it a calling because people just watch too much to too many YouTube videos or read too many articles like this? It's like I say, you know, i think there's a big movement behind this which pushes, pushes it into, into the public view of it And, um, i'm personally I wouldn't say this is without reason, but, uh, as we said before, you know, let's not walk that path, but I'm pretty sure you know that. Um See, the whole society is built in a way where we always think how can we improve ourselves?
Speaker 2:Is there a way, how to become a better self? And the thing is that if you don't have the underlying trust and the underlying awareness in the fact that being the self is just a part of you and not all you are, that if you don't have that, then you can lose yourself into constantly trying to be in the future, fixing the problem that you think you are actually Not have but are, and which is not existed. If you start to acknowledge the fact that you are that way in the first place, you're not keeping constantly looking away from yourself. And that's the point. And I think that this approach that they take with psychedelics is always on an external point of view, to improve the self.
Speaker 2:And the latest big shit sorry for the wording, but the latest big thing in the psychedelic community, or in even well, like what can be called media, i mean there were some papers saying like Hunter Biden did five miradity or did the tone even call you and you would kind of ask isn't Hunter Biden the guy with the laptop thing and crazy, yeah, or there are a lot of other people who get pushed in that direction. So people see this. And the latest big thing is like you need to die to realize how beautiful life is. You need to kill your ego. Well, see, obviously you're having this wish from the ego point of view, because love is without wishes, love is without all this, love is yeah, and you, if you focus on be here now, you know not need anything, and if then there comes this idea, i need to kill the ego. The ego needs to die. It's actually the ego thinking that.
Speaker 1:Well, we, actually you get indoctrinated into that in spiritual circles as well.
Speaker 1:You can get indoctrinated into this kind of feeling like the ego is some sort of big bad that you have to defeat, like some sort of hero's journey that develops in your mind about, like right, i've got this big thing that I've got to conquer in my life, and it's like it's similar to war on drugs type tactics back in the day, when the people, they want you to have this mentality of being in a fight, because that actually that resistance towards the thing actually makes it bigger and makes it more prominent and it what really you need to do is surrender to the experience, whatever that experience is, and get into more and more of a surrendered state, and personally I do feel like psychedelics have made a massive impact on me in that regard.
Speaker 1:You know I came from a much more traditional spiritual backing of meditation and stuff like that, which, and when you read about these masters, you're reading about these people who've, like, conquered the ego, and it can create a very adversarial relationship in your own head Sometimes. You just need to be at peace with yourself and accept yourself for who you are and accept the ego and accept all your ideal, synchrosies and your problems.
Speaker 2:I find that the more we fight, the worse it gets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i personally wouldn't go so far. I'm not using the word ego that much because, if at all, yeah, i just said it. Yeah, but I think it's so overloaded with negativity that you will have a hard time to say thank you, you know, thank you that I am here, thank you that I'm on this trip. I love, you know, my ego being the vehicle being part of the vehicle, to experience all this here and so, yeah, this is why I don't use the word and actually this is. You know, you have a hard time to find people saying that to themselves and but this is really that's the easy way, yeah, the way we always overlook. Why are we not starting with gratitude and with acknowledgement of where we are, who we are and what is, instead of constantly looking away from that and, you know, into a future self, which is better?
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that you did not improve yourself with these experiences. The question is just you know where the big improvements happening, because you were seeking them out and then doing the drug and then to die was all solved in a sec, or was it more that initially you had this longing and you started and the real benefit came from realization that it's okay, and that there's nothing to solve, and that there's nothing to fix, and that there's. You know how beautiful it all is. I mean that this is where people fall into when they're in these experiences. It's called letting go. Yeah, it's, which is also funny, you know, people like it's all about letting go, right, yeah, and letting go is not doing something. It's not. You know, i'm letting go now. Yeah, it's just happening in and out of itself when you have enough.
Speaker 1:We all romanticize even the journey. Right, you're like we were like romanticize the journey and it's like the funny thing is it's actually just it's kind of paradoxical. Is that like it's the journey that's the problem? because journey is predicated upon time, right and time. When you get to a certain when you've been to, had a certain experience, you understand time is kind of a construct and the only thing that really exists is now. You know what I mean. So, like the, we're almost like programmed from a young age, even at the books that we read or things that we interact with, the movies, and like we're always programmed to see there's got to be a destination that I'm going to, there's got to be traveling from A to B. I can't just be traveling right.
Speaker 2:It's, indeed it is. You know that's the reason for doing it in the first place and you know why you were saying that. I was just like. You know what is that? just like, for an easy example, what is happening today, you know. So we started and the recording issues, and while the whole process goes on, you know you end up in the wow, it's happening moment and then it's okay, and you don't have this, i didn't want to do this or whatever thing, and yeah, so I mean that's also. It's so funny with podcasts you always have this you need to deliver thing. Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, it goes five, four, three, two, one. Then the recording starts and you go like, okay, i take on this mask of being the moderator of this show and and hey, i'm having this guest Oliver here and and I'm on one level, i mean this is like shit, i need to deliver. People are sitting there and they want something, and when I see this guy can't speak straight, i mean English is not my first language.
Speaker 2:Okay, i'm sorry, yeah no, you do the great job yeah, but you know, it's kind of like you have simultaneously the show running here and and still it goes on and you know you're losing it and and then you're suddenly there, yeah, and it's not, i want to be here, it's all here now. Yeah, a Catholic says there's no need to hear. Now I need to meditate on this, you know, and, and you can go pretty crazy you know being obsessed with that. Before you were obsessed with the poshi, now you're obsessed with the here now. Yeah, and and this is the thing we're very critical about all the spiritual and the psychedelic movements. Yeah, and now we have the five medium tea you have. There's the spiritual and the psychedelic movement combined.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, and the crazy thing, it's how how these spiritual people explain you why they want to do a five meal session is is yeah, i heard it's not psychedelic at all, it's just this experience. It's just, you know, it's just self-dissolution, it's the ego, it's the ego. Death. Yeah, experience. I don't want the hallucinations, i don't want the drug, yeah, i want the experience. And I say, well, you know you don't get it by just pushing the button, you know the process is happening before that and then it's meaningless to do it, then, yeah it, you can do it. And then you do it, and then, and and you know the best way is to do it and then realize I knew it all, i knew it before and it's just, it's just a nodding, it it's just life is nodding in your direction saying hey see, you knew it, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, i'm 40 years, i've been on this trip.
Speaker 2:I'm 40, eight I'm, you know, and people are on this trip and and the trip is the yeah to come back where you came from. That it's all about the trip and not about the goal, where you go to so only like.
Speaker 1:One thing that I want to clarify as well is you've mentioned mushrooms, you've mentioned five MEO, dmt, what would you say? the fundamental differences between things like psilocybin, which have a bit bit more of a long acting gentler process, and things that are quicker in a time frame but a much more pronounced, you know, bank kind of experience. Like, where do you stand in regards to, like, let's say, a beginner? what should they do first if they're trying to go?
Speaker 2:down this road. Well, that's two questions. Obviously, yeah, so I mean I'm doing both sessions. Yeah, though, i'm doing mushroom sessions for people who already have had mushrooms. So high dose mushrooms so ask her. That's how the home page is called, and so obviously this is high dose mushrooms. So there's a difference between mushrooms and high dose mushrooms. Yeah, and five million DMT is this.
Speaker 2:You know, you, you typically vaporize the drug and it sets on in within 30, 30, 40 seconds and in a minute you're just gone. Yeah, so there's there. There there is a place for that kind of experience, but it's, it's a pretty unnatural way of having such an experience, whereas the mushrooms they they take, they have like a curve which is like this you know, they take the time to take action on you. Then you you're reaching a plateau and and come down slowly again. So you have time to let go into it properly. By the by the long come up and you have time to integrate it while already coming down. I mean, pure integration takes place in the weeks, if not months, afterwards, but the overall experience is very natural, very, you know, soft. That's how life is going. You know, the tree doesn't drop the leaf in an instant, it just takes a few weeks. So, yeah, in that regard, mushrooms is it, if you ask me. And typically you can't get pretty sick from them, they're just really it's. The amount is very low. So it's not like ayahuasca. You know where you take a brew and you get instantly sick because, i mean, they cook all. It's not the DMT, it's all the plant material which is cooked in the brew, and with mushrooms you don't have that either. And so, yeah, mushrooms is the thing.
Speaker 2:So the second part of the question, how would you start would be hmm, see I, my children are around, but two of them are in the 20s and my son is 17. So not yet came the point where my son is asking me who is more into substances. My younger daughter, she's not really interested, but my older daughter, she's interested And she did try to do mushrooms. And obviously I wasn't in this position of I care a lot because my daughter and how much would I? I mean, i would never give mushrooms to children. Yeah, so in our range here it's 18 years, yeah, where you say you're adult. So that is, that is a number I would say you know a person need to reach before starting doing this stuff. So I'm not a fan of 15 year olds buying mushrooms truffles in Amsterdam Yeah, that's, i'm not. I'm not a fan of that.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, there's I mean there's the exclusion with the micro dosing. We had that before. Yeah, so micro dosing is not not directly active working mushrooms, so that is a difference. Yeah, you can do this below. Yeah, but really a real trip here you need to have a certain edge. And then, yeah, you can do both. Yeah, if you have a sitter and a professional one, you can dive in and do a real deal session. Real deal session would be starting 20, 25 milligrams. It depends on the mushroom species you have, how many mushrooms you need to take that. But typically, from the potent stuff that I have, i would we're talking about one and a half gram to two to two and a half gram, and but you need a proper sitter ready for that. But then you can. That's also the possibility just to have a gram where you go like 0.5, 0.6, 0.7 milligram of or not 0.5, 0.5 to 7 milligrams of active alkaloids. Yeah, so that will be a. That will be a gentle startup experience.
Speaker 2:The thing is just, if you repeat too often and it finishes the quiz, the answer yeah, if you do this too often, the mind gets used to having the control And I personally believe it's not about manifesting that way of control, because you stay on the surface, it's always the mind.
Speaker 2:You stay in duality and it does well, in our society at least. Yeah, without the purpose. Let's say spiritual, yeah, yeah, for the lack of a better word at that point spiritual background, yeah, you can lose yourself into just manifesting more of that mind control that you've been raised into from our society. So this is also what's taking place with a lot of what is advertised right now that people go repetitively to these sessions and maybe they even increase the dose, but so small those increase that they get more and more the control over it And it's see, that's the core. It's about giving up control. That the experience is in core. And if you do it in a proper setting, with darkness, with gentle I use, you know, music, yeah, gentle, ambient music, playing just the candle burning in the night yeah, if you give a proper surrounding, a proper container setting, you can take a small dose and go far out, because it's all about, you know, putting the mind into a gentle mode to easily lift off of the constraints of the mind, and yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, i just wanted to extrapolate on that because I just got an idea that the mind came up with one there. Ollie, that people probably get is the weird danger. Now, the weird danger is probably too too heavy a weird right. But when you talk about set and setting, do you feel like there's any like areas that people really big areas that people can make at the beginning that might cause them to have not so good or helpful experiences? I've heard of a few anecdotal ones where they're kind of taking it recreationally, it's not really in a proper setting and it's not gone well. So what would your advice be, as someone who's been a practitioner of this for a very long time is with regards to things to avoid doing And maybe settings to avoid, because a lot of people do group sessions as well.
Speaker 2:Well, if you go to a group session, you need to take care that and this. You see, i'm saying this from a point where I did differently. If I were to do group sessions again which I'm not seeing, but if I would do it again, i would stick to the maximum one to two situations. So one sitter sits for two clients. What we were doing was two sitters for 14 clients. So well, you know, it never went terribly wrong or so, and we were doing really high dosages. But, yeah, definitely I learned it's not the way to do it. It's not even if you mean, well, if you give it all in I was burning out crazily after four, five years and it's very you have a much better quality of the experience. You know, if you be aware of the quantity, and that's yeah. So, and the big mistakes, i mean, you know, read it up on the internet set and setting, what is the set, the mindset, yeah, and what is the setting. And you know, go to a party on mushrooms first time you're asking for trouble. You know, that's clear And it doesn't help. You know that you can order on the internet in Holland yeah, in Netherlands You can order this psychedelic truffles, which, by the way, are not truffles, yeah, it's just. I mean, they know how to market shit. Yeah, it's ferocious, but it's just, you know it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very good to know someone who grows mushrooms, yeah, and can supply you with such, and also does it in a responsible way, by giving, yeah, a direction list and talking with you and supporting you before and after.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, i mean I'm since I'm only doing this high-dose sessions normally yeah, i'm ending up in this, in this, in the situation that I'm not having many sessions. I mean, luckily, i'm not in the need to do them. Yeah, because I'm this, it's not my main job and I'm not feeding a family with it. So, which is very important, because a lot of these people, they need to make money and if you see, it's not good energy if you need to make money and then do this work and so, yeah, but I'm giving, i'm, you know, i'm sharing my mushrooms. Let's, let's let it put that way and, yeah, it's very important that you give that. You, you know that you share with people how to properly do it, and being able to buy them in a shop is not necessarily a good thing, because you know, yeah, so I've got an affinity for like rituals, slash ceremony type ideas.
Speaker 1:I just have a natural affinity for it. You know I just like it. But I do feel like it's beneficial for stuff like psychedelics. Basically, would you agree with that? Would you say like having someone that you trust, who's there sitting for you and then treating it like treating it with respect maybe Is that the word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, see, i'm not against retreats, yeah, or group sessions or something. It's just when you have a group session you need to take proper care about the screening of people and you need to have a certain level of experience with these people and you need to be clear that the dose where you had for is not crazily much more than what these people know. It is So in that sense that the overall experience of the group, the group energy, that this is kind of like the main focus that you have there. It's just on typical retreats they take everyone. You know And I say that for myself too I wasn't having the time to deeply screen on people like I do it today with my sessions that I do today, the private ones. And, yeah, you end up with a situation where you can't take proper care for a person who has overdone it in that sense because they weren't prepared properly for what would be happening, and then it's more like a disturbance to the rest of the group because that person is not really connecting with the other people in a sense that he would be grabbed from falling through the group energy. But it strongly depends how long you are with these people in this group before, and there are some good examples of people going to Peru and doing ayahuasca and having like a two free days getting together in the jungle, before that together. So then in the jungle, where it's an environment you don't know, as a Westerner, you're more dependent on the other ones and you're more connecting with everyone around you And yeah, so that is a much different thing than driving to Holland, going to a retreat, two hours after you came there you start with the first sessions and you're just thrown together in one box because it's cheaper to serve that way.
Speaker 2:That's a different approach. So there's beauty of doing a group session. It's not that I'm, you know. There's definitely beauty, but the smaller the better. You know, a group is already free for people, or free people even, but let's say, for.
Speaker 2:You see, there's a guy he's a Dutch guy who does sessions in the Netherlands and I'm supplying him with mushrooms, so his sessions are done with the beauty that I'm creating here or which is created for me or whatever, and so he can make sure he has the best material and I know how he does sessions and that is a very good way he does it. He has a good support before and a great support afterwards and he also is just doing it with two sitters for maximum five people, exactly what I said before one on two approach, and he does have a very good and in-depth signup procedure. So yeah, like I said, you know, if I would do it again, i would work that way too. It's just maybe I've done it too much, you know. I mean, five years was a long time and I've been was 41 weekends we've done and that were taking three days always and it was tough stuff.
Speaker 1:So just talking about the movie for a second. How did you get involved in that? How did that happen?
Speaker 2:Frankie sent me an email and tuned in And I was like at that point I was like I don't know, you know? I mean, obviously it's very important that you check what kind of stuff will be filmed afterwards. Yeah, that is the point, and I would not allow and still won't and never will allow a real five meals session to be filmed. There are these, either private ones, or even Octavia Radek was doing it for the time, filming people, i guess, even on Asked and stuff. But but, long story short, you know you just don't film someone.
Speaker 2:Having a five meal empty experience of that's a very, very fragile state a human is in then And it's not good to have people watching that surrounding that event. And this is something you know. I wouldn't do five meal in groups anymore. If it is for full dosages, yeah, if you go like eight milligrams or something, yeah you can do that, because then there's no ego, ego dissolution, yet no non-geo experience. So then it was okay. But but you see, seeing in this sitting in a circle and doing this experience with a group you don't fully know is always interacting energetic, wise with your experience, and it's not good to not have a proper surrounding for five meal trip Five meal is already taking a big toll on someone's mind.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's all about love, you see, and if you and the mind, the ego, yeah, treats itself with disrespect, with not with love, with, it pushes itself. This is how we've been raised. There's no mistake involved. Everyone is like this for a reason. People who push themselves, people who are obsessed with their outer being, yeah, are easy to manipulate through fear. That's the reason why this is happening in society. You're easy to manipulate. The more you are here, the more fear is something which pulls you in, and then it's easy to like the climate change, yeah, makes you, gives you shivering. Yeah, that's the point. For example, yeah, i wouldn't say there's something like that. I'm just. The thing is just, yeah, what a five medium tea takes a big toll on the mind already. You know, smoke boom, yeah, mind dies. Yeah, you freak out and or whatever you do, and then you come back and it's a very, very hard rush for the mind. So you want to have the best set and setting for this. This is what I believe.
Speaker 2:So no group sessions for five medium. I don't, i wouldn't support that. Back to the question. So they came to me because they I can't even remember how they heard about me. But yeah, they asked Yeah, i'm like, okay, i can do it this and this and this that way, yeah, and in the end you know there were. It was like family. You know they weren't sleeping in our house but they were getting to know the family and it was really really big family thing going on And I mean obviously, yeah, super lovely boys And and I mean, if the whole movie also radiates that, it's a loving experience, it's a journey for the free ones. I mean they drove here, yeah, which is quite a mile from England, so it was really really beautiful And I wouldn't.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't see this coming because I had an experience with filming something before that I did. I did a very short. I mean you can't even call that documentary. It was a six and a half minutes snippet in the end, which obviously took the night with the session with a, with a lady called Marisa, and you can still find it on the internet. I can't remember what it's called.
Speaker 2:Again, though, i took it off of my homepage because I just don't want to support it anymore. It's a very small snippet I can't remember. Actually, i'm sorry It's and it's not what you, i did not want to repeat that, you know I really didn't want to repeat that And and so it was a bit risky for me, yeah, but I really got tuned in with with, first with Frank and then with Charles and Boris, so nicely And it turned out to be a win, win, win, win, win situation for, you know, humanity, for a conscious, it was just so beautiful And a lot of people you know in the aftermath wrote to me having seen the, the movie, and sadly it's not getting the popularity that it deserves. But yeah, you know God's plan.
Speaker 1:So what And yeah. I've got my take on that. But, like I think I bought the movie out of support, obviously, but when they had it on YouTube for a while, I think it really would have blown up if it was, if it stayed on YouTube.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I think, boris, boris, this is what he does for a living. you know, not fully sadly, but he, he's desperate, he puts a lot of work into that. I mean it's edit. it's edited in a way, very, very professionally and lovely, and I mean, he's a professionalist too. You know, i can share that. So he really yeah.
Speaker 1:So I don't know. I mean, that movie is very professional. It's very well done. I'd recommend anyone going to watch it. One thing I would say as well is how did the Boris seem to take it? It was Boris the one who seemed to take it quite hard afterwards, like so in the movie he seemed to be. How did? if you don't mind me asking how has he been after that? Has he managed to integrate it, and is he? is he feeling a lot better now within himself? Because he seemed like he was struggling a little bit after after having the Yeah, the funny.
Speaker 2:the funny thing is he never told me and he knew I'm here. you know he can, you know we can talk about it, and he never told me. And the funny thing is his experiences was the most gentle one, right, he was. during the experience He was super soft and super, super calm and very, very peaceful And but, yeah, it's. it's kind of like when you realize, yeah, what the truth is, yeah, and then look at the world, how it is happening, yeah, and go deep into why things are happening that way And and is the human being really that, the bad, such a bad being that it is portrayed in our society. Is it really? Or where is this coming from? Yeah, and seeing what, all, what is all happening, and then, on the other hand, seeing this, you know, this woke stuff going on like where is no, where there's no heart in it. you know there's no, it's not see, you see it's all, it's all about how you be instead of being And and yeah, so I totally can understand that you have a hard calm down, still needing to go on with this kind of stuff here. And he has, he has children and you know, like a daily stuff. you know, when you have this daily thing going on and and, believe me, you know, all he is a, you know my alliness is totally depressed and suicidal and that never lifts. Yeah, it's just the way. how much I am it. Or if I'm just the ones watching this, this happening, this is what changed over the years. And and staying with yourself with love and affection, you know, taking the little one in the arm and saying, hey, ollie, come on. Oh boy, you know it's that, yeah, so Yeah, it's. you know, when we were in the beginning. it's not about improving the self, it's about acknowledging the way you are. it's about realizing I am that and it's good, because this is my trip, this is, you know, and suddenly that's the beauty. you see, if you start to look from a loving place towards yourself, you realize the beauty that you are and how off the way was to watch yourself through the eyes that society tells you you should watch yourself through.
Speaker 2:And yeah, but to end up answering the question, i never knew about it. I saw it first in the first cut that I got from the movie and I did ask him are you cool? And he said yeah, yeah, i was that and it's part. it was part and I wanted to record it. He's honest enough to record that. So, yeah, he's cool And with the stuff that has happened in the past three years, again you know a lot, if not. everyone has been asked do you trust yourself, do you trust love, do you trust life Or do you trust? Yeah, you know what's been on offering. Yeah, So, and I guess it's all about the big trust life, yeah, trust God, trust yourself, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to say God, yeah, it's really God Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean it's an interesting one because the I think in recent events it's put a spotlight on it and I think it's kind of often the one who's shouting the loudest about being moral, or is the seat of morality, and shouting the loudest about that and then trying to manipulate and dictate what other people do with their own free will. I think there is a real issue with that and I think there is a real arrogance with that and all of these things are the worst characteristics of the mind, you know, and they've just propagated that message. So I'm in agreement. I think that there is. there's definite issues with impinging on people's sovereign freedom. you know, we're all free beings, were born into this world as free entities to make free choices. So I think, as long as you're not harming anyone else and even that was used They're clever. You got to give it to them. They're clever, ali, they're clever.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you know what I would say as well is I wanted to talk to you a little bit about integration of an experience. It's not as sexy as talking about you know having a you know a death experience at 5MEO or you know having a really interesting, you know, visions and hallucinations were not really, but you know visions of things and in certain different types of experiences. But I found integration is probably the most a lasting thing. It's probably the most the next few days and weeks afterwards are really. I mean, i had an experience where I was just randomly breaking down, crying for like several days after one experience I had And I found that I must have been getting out of my system a lot of suppressed trauma that I had not acknowledged. So how can you speak to that, ali, in terms of the integration process and how important that is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we said it before, it's the utmost of importance, it's the integration It's really. The thing is, i had a coaching a few days with a guy from Switzerland, i guess, yeah. So so we were talking about he was like how can I proper let go? Yeah, how can I proper, how can I graph what I have during the experience into daily life? Is there a way to get that, to grab that? And I said, why would you want to do this?
Speaker 2:So we were going back and forth and I said, hey, it's all here. You know you don't need anything, you don't need to take anything to have it. Yeah. And I said, hey, if you want, you know I sent you mushrooms. You can do mushrooms every week. I mean, if you would do them every day, you have tolerance, yeah, but let's say, once a week, you, you celebrate that and you wait, you know when will be the day, yeah, and then you have it once a week. I can support you with this. You know you do it and then you can have it. And maybe even because he was talking about, yeah, i'm seeing the benefit from the small dosages and how I can, you know stuff, yeah. So I said yeah, and and, and you know, do it in a, in a dose which is comfortable for the mind, yeah. So you kind of you're on the improvement trip, you go fully in and then we talk again in a year, yeah. Or we talk again in a half a year And let's see how much that helped you on that trip.
Speaker 2:Or maybe you just realize that the longing, yeah you have here now, in German you say Sehnsucht, yeah. Longing means is Sehnsucht, yeah, and and and is addiction, yeah, and is something to long for, yeah. And longing for means always here now, no, in the future. I long for it to be somewhere else, yeah. So you're addicted to longing for the future of being again all here now, in peace, high from mushrooms, that kind of thing, you see.
Speaker 2:So this is, this is also happening with many people who encounter psychedelics and then go on this, i need to go. Tonight I was great treat again. Mama is calling me, the spirits told me I need to go again. You know there's all these kind of images that people build up to just happen. It's funny. You know the. You know the, the, the. The junkie at the at the train station, yeah, he knows exactly shit. I need a shot. I'm starting to to swear, yeah, but the I was careful, maybe he says like, yes, spirit is calling me, i gotta go again, and you, finally, you can always see this happening in the third, fourth week after such a session, because then the, the serotonin levels come back to normal place. Yeah, and and, and it's kind of like the high is wearing off. Yeah, and I'm, i was calling me, i gotta go, and you know.
Speaker 2:So the thing is, you see, i, yeah, are you able to? you know, i mean, you can fully give into this longing, yeah, into this addiction of yours, no problem, yeah, i support you, you can try. And because you see that the the most beautiful thing in life is a life real, a real experience, yeah, because we, we watch telly and the experience of life is about this and that, ah, this is the experience of life. And you go like I know, yeah, but switching off the telly, going out, having a life experience, a life, life experience, like life here now, like mixed, yeah, and you're going through it. Going through it, it's not knowledge, it's wisdom, and that's the point. You see, you want to have wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is stuff of someone else. Wisdom is the stuff that you want to have, that's your stuff, that's? ah, i've been going through this So.
Speaker 2:And there's many ways to do this, you see, either you just go into it, giving it fully, you know, be an alcoholic to see how it is to be alcoholic, yeah, or be conscious for what it does to your body and maybe just be a bit of alcoholic and then realize, okay, i give this up. You know, i've been, i've been giving this stuff up and I thought I've been giving it up in the past, but then it came back with all the stuff that's happening and only having his issues. You know, you see the, you see the lines in the sky and you ask yourself, hmm, has there been when you were small? Yeah, and that can pull you down? Yeah. And then it's good to have a supermarket on the other side who sells schnapps. Yeah, good work, good So.
Speaker 2:But you know you start to realize, okay, the schnapps is, i'm getting bloated, is this good? I'm not feeling well anymore. And then you have the chance to either die for this shit or realize, okay, i gotta, let you know, not, i gotta, but hey, i try out to let it go, let's say it that way, yeah. And then you let it go. I'm feeling much better. Okay, so you had, then, this experience, and you know what you're talking about and it's and it's not. They tell you it's, you have it. And so, yeah, um, integration.
Speaker 2:To finally ask the question, what I just all shared with you, that is integration. That is exactly that. And you can have that by calling all the yeah, how, like, can we integrate together? Yeah, and we have coaching and we talk about that and you reflect on that. Yeah, by hey, you can also write me whatever, or you just do it yourself, by consciously going through it, by realizing, okay, we're in the third week, now I'm starting to feel a little bit more grounded and not as high as last week. Oh, okay, correct, my brain chemistry is going back to normal. So maybe I helped my brain chemistry by having a walk a day by, by going out, watching the sun, as it said, yeah, sunset in the evening. What a lovely experience. Every day you can have that.
Speaker 2:My mantra is right now, or my meditative business is in these days Yeah, And right now it's uh, uh, watching the garden. I mean, obviously it's not raining, so I'm the rain for the water for the garden, and I'm and I'm doing this barefoot, Yeah, because a thing, yeah, another one, very wise, one, interesting thing. I have all electric culture in the garden, so I'm just a bit of gaga, yeah, and uh, and it's so cool, you know, i'm standing there and watching the plants and having some good music playing here, uh, alice in Shades, i've listened to the past days and South garden, uh, chris Connell, you know, and very nice, standing there and singing, and, and, every every evening for an hour or something, barefoot, yeah, everything, and that just feels very, very, very good, as if I would have been taken mushrooms. And that's the point. You see, you don't need to take the mushrooms, um, just be conscious for what is happening around you.
Speaker 2:And integration means, you know, reliving through what has been stored during the trip, by remembering it, yeah, and by watching stuff happening in you. But proper integration you can call um, conscious, um, um, like, yeah, being aware. Yeah, everyone is rising in you and and, and, and, and, and I mean it sounds fishy again, like spiritual, uh, but you know, just watch it, be, be, be the um, be the spectator of it. You know, be the um, be the person witnessing it in you. And if you do that, you can go a very long way and and that will help you to get the best out of that experience. Yeah, because the the memory, the memory you might have from the experience might create longing. If it was a very good trip, you know you get that longing. For I want to add that again, i have the Sehnsucht. You know I have the longing to have that again. Uh, and then you realize, hey, wait a second, do I need the mushrooms or is it here now? Yeah, so that I guess answers the question. Oh, that, was great.
Speaker 1:That was great. Yeah, I think we should, we should. I think that was a good place to to end it. Holly, I think, Yeah. So I just want to thank you again for your time. Um, if anybody does want to get in touch with you, uh, I might uh basically reach out to me and I'll be the conjurer, maybe. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put put the the the homepage below it. In the past I've been longing that people, that that people from the podcast would do this just as an advertisement for the weekends and blah, but I honestly I don't need it. I don't need advertisement and I don't really care anymore. It's just. For me it's most important to give the mushrooms further And if people are supposed to find me, they find me. And um, yeah, by asking you, that will be one way And it's really um, um, what a trip, man. It's just, what a fucking trip. It's just. I'm sorry, i guess we're losing the last one of the series, uh, series.
Speaker 1:Not at all, not at all. Thank you I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
